Uplink: AI, Data Center, and Cloud Innovation Podcast
Uplink explores the future of connectivity, cloud, and AI with the people shaping it. Hosted by Michael Reid, we explore cutting edge trends with top industry experts.
Uplink: AI, Data Center, and Cloud Innovation Podcast
Breaking Barriers: Insights From an Internet Pioneer
From failing his bachelor’s degree three times to becoming the architect of Europe’s internet backbone, Raphael Maunier’s story is as unconventional as it is inspiring.
The Co-Founder and COO of OpsMill shares how a two-week Paris vacation turned into a pioneering career building internet exchanges, fighting DDoS attacks, and leading companies to acquisitions by tech giants.
Raphael talks about his bold leap into configuring Cisco routers with zero formal training, the mindset that carried him through founding France IX and Acorus Networks, and why his leadership philosophy centers on building teams of rock stars rather than chasing individual stardom.
This wide-ranging conversation explores entrepreneurship, innovation, and how automation and AI can transform human work, not replace it.
🚀 Uplink explores the future of connectivity, cloud, and AI with the people shaping it. Hosted by Michael Reid.
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🔗 Learn more about Megaport: https://www.megaport.com/
Welcome to Uplink, where we explore the world of digital infrastructure, uncovering the technology, fueling AI and cloud innovation, with the leaders making it happen. I'm your host, michael Reid. My guest today is a true serial entrepreneur, an actual legend in the industry Raphael Monnier. He's currently co-founder and COO at OpsMill, but his story is really incredible. He's founded and exited many companies. He's considered the founding father of internet in France. He's a motorcycle racer and, more recently, a champion weightlifter. This podcast is longer than normal as the story was so fascinating we didn't want to stop. Let's dive in. Well, welcome to another episode of Uplink. I'm joined with a really fascinating guest today, rafael Munoz. He's described as an entrepreneur and investor, but if you have a look at him on LinkedIn, you'll be blown away. I'm just going to quickly sort of download what you've been doing, dude, because it's astounding. We're really lucky to have you here.
Speaker 2:You started sort of in the internet space in 1997, early days of internet in France, and so when I look at it, I chat GPT'd you as well. It said heavy hitter in France and European internet backbone and a whole range of other pieces. But you were I'm just going to sort of bounce through these Like you were Hotliner, which became Orange. You were then Honus, which was building the internet backbone, Fiat building their backbone. Then you were Vaya Networks, then Neo Telecom, which built AS8218, which is then acquired by Zayo. So that became, I guess, the internet platform for xeo. Here you had jaguar network. Then you co-founded france ix, which is one of the largest internet exchanges on the planet, um, which is incredible. You then went and taught uh telecom, from what I can tell, at paris tech telecom, paris tech, you were a cto. At another group you co-founded the as35280 or um aquarus networks which then merged with volterra, um, volterra that was then acquired by f5, the massive company we all know as f5, and I think you were doing a whole range of different security components and ddos and so forth in there. You're a limited partner of a number of vc firms at the moment. So I assume you own lots of different companies You're helping consult and maybe help them shape what they're building. You're a shareholder in Lux Networks and now you're also co-founder CEO of Opsmill, which is a fascinating company basically, from what I can see, automating all of the infrastructure, which is sort of an interesting connection between Megaport we look at infrastructure as code and sort of an interesting connection between Megaport. You know we look at infrastructure as code and sort of. Our entire network is automated. So there's a connection there.
Speaker 2:And the other piece I'd love to unpack is some of your personal life as well. You're super fit. You just came third in a weightlifting championship in France and Europe as well, and Europe, which means you've got to go back next year and win. And you also race motorbikes. You've got some motorbike companies. That, or at least so there is a lot to unpack here. But let's just start. Let me just rewind. It's 1997. You've just jumped. You've just seen the internet take off. You're young, obviously. I mean. To have done all this at your age is impressive. But if we rewind back there, you literally have shaped the certainly french and european internet backbones, the internet itself, uh, and then you've had all these different companies along the way as well. Let's rewind to there. What on earth are you doing? Uh, how did you end up in this space? And then, how did this ball get through all these things?
Speaker 1:I think it was. What I said is sometimes you have luck and sometimes you build your luck. So, and when you, I was so I didn't grow up in France here. I grew up in a small French island, okay, in Indian Ocean, near Madagascar, it's called. Rhenian Island. So I grew up on an island for 20 years and I tried to do my bachelor's degrees and after three times I failed. So I tell you one time, two times and three times I said okay, it's not for me.
Speaker 1:So I came to Paris just for two weeks of vacation and usually when you, a man, is doing something crazy and not what you should do, it's because there's a woman involved.
Speaker 2:Always. So I came to Paris. To my girlfriend at the time Makes complete sense.
Speaker 1:She made it and she was studying in Paris. So I said, okay, let's come for vacation and I'll go back and I come back. I said I don't come back, I will find a job and I will stay here In Paris, in Paris, perfect. Stay here in paris, in paris, perfect, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I started to uh a few weeks back, I was starting to chat with some people in irc, so yeah, the original chat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I was chatting with some guys say you should come to see us. I came, say oh, you want a job, so come. And this is when I end up like uh, the day after I got a job yes I got my job at the uh platform of uh. So tele performance, orange, uh for the hotline. Okay, and this is. And then I started to talk to people and then I moved to the provider of the hotline. They asked me oh, we know what you are doing so please come to us.
Speaker 1:We want some people, some young people, to train them and to make them better. So I left, go to this one, and this is networks at this time train them and to make them better. So so I left, go to this one. And this is networks at this time. So where is this is? Yeah, this is the first time I started to know what is a real network.
Speaker 1:So, I was doing some outline to have people to um set up the PC, uh, to be able to go to internet. But I was not able to build it and I was not. I was not able to know what is going on. So it was about nine months. I said I want to know more, sort of dial-up connection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was dial-up, yeah, so I started to have some. The first internet platform I was seeing was after nine months, so the provider of the outline, and this is how I moved to this company. So it was, it was fun.
Speaker 2:I remember the only thing 1996 is the first time I can remember internet, like the very first time I remember actually experiencing internet. I was in uh. Was I high school? Yeah, I think grade eight, uh, in high school. Yeah, so that's my very first memory of the internet, which is exactly when you've started messing around with this piece. Um, it's pretty slow, so okay. So you end up at um, orness, is it?
Speaker 1:yeah, it was a provider of the outline, so they provided internet access and I wanted to know how it's going to work for for other people. And this is. I started to ask questions and they asked me okay, so you should come so we can show you, and then you will be able to know how to do it so this is how I do it.
Speaker 1:I ended up, uh, and figure out how to beat for myself, okay, and uh, that's it. And the funny part is, I remember when this is what I said to when I was um, uh, after a few years, uh, I started to give some uh course to some engineers and you have to take some risk. For example, I joined this company. They say, okay, you will do the outline for us. And a week after I joined, they said do you know how you can configure a Cisco? This is the first time I saw a Cisco at my life. Oh, because tomorrow we have a customer and this guy is sick and you have to. This is a router, this is a how to do it. And on Monday you go.
Speaker 1:So they gave me on the friday night the stuff I never heard what is water or the cisco? Yeah, so I didn't sleep for the weekend how to understand how to be the uh, the uh dial-up connection on the cisco equipment. And then I I went to the guy as a customer I was about to do it because I didn't sleep for two or two days. And uh, yeah, this is how I say, okay, you have to take your chance. Second risk and say, yes, I can. And yeah, this is how I say, okay, you have to take your change second risk and say, yes, I can do it. And then this is how I started to first hands-on on the router or something so cool.
Speaker 2:So many people end up in tech without sort of accidentally end up in tech. It's cool. It's a great place to learn Curious minds, people who want to hustle. Yeah, you don't actually have to have a degree, it's probably a great example.
Speaker 1:I never I have degree minus one yeah negative, no degree.
Speaker 2:Okay. So then you've bounced through a bunch of these different companies. I mean, what was Neo Telecom?
Speaker 1:Neo Telecom was early days internet. You have a big company called MFN, so MFN above net, um. So this company, uh, they went bankrupt, chapter 11. They were one of the biggest tier one in the world. In was that 2000?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah so.
Speaker 1:MFN above net. It was a big company and then became Zio Okay, okay. So the company went bankrupt. Was Zio from Europe first, or no, that was the US.
Speaker 2:They built above net.
Speaker 1:MFN in US. And they started to build the backbone in Europe Okay. And then they started to build a fiber backbone in Paris Okay. And the company went bankrupt and my former boss at the end they did the MBO on the company, okay. And then they started to hire people and this is when Neotechum was built on, on the top of the assets from that.
Speaker 1:Yes on the asset because of Chapter 11. It's such a funny story. And they bought it after 10 years ago. So they built Moncourt 2002, 2003, and 2015,. They bought back the company.
Speaker 2:Okay, hosea bought it back.
Speaker 1:Oh, it came from Hosea. It came out of that, came back around.
Speaker 2:It came all the way back around. That's crazy. Well, it's such a common story for telco. Yeah, you know this whole huge investment in capital. To lay it out, financing terms change. We have 2008 occurs, all these different pieces. It's hard to get funding. So many of them go under. They get recycled, they reappear again. It sort of keeps happening, doesn't?
Speaker 1:it so my study on this one is when you get. You get too much money day one.
Speaker 1:You don't know how to spend your money wisely and when you start your company from your own money and you start to build it and when you get money after this, then you do it right. This is why I've seen from people doing it the right way. But of course you have also the ecosystem that may go down. Then the company could go down, but at the end I have seen that people who start with their own money and start to grow companies and then get money this is how it's most successful.
Speaker 2:Start from a bootstrap perspective and then scale. Okay, so then France IX, which is, I mean, megaport, actually has a lot of internet exchanges around the world as well, and we connect into all the different exchanges, including France IX. But for folks listening, can you explain an IX, because people get confused on what actually the internet exchange is. But if you had to articulate what it is, so at a very high level.
Speaker 1:Internet is a connection of multiple networks. So you build network A, B, C, D and you have to connect to them. To go to A to C, you have to go through B and so on, because if A and C are not connected together, you have to use a third party to connect all of this. And then the force of internet started to say okay, it's too difficult to have everyone connected together directly, so let's build a platform where anyone can connect to this platform and connect it together. It's like you want to go to a place where you have only one road and then it can be crowded at some point. If you open the road to multiple lanes at the same time, then it's more easy. So the internet platform uh, internet exchange, is really a big network where people can go and chat together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's like you open, uh, you have a, you have a small room of three people can talk, and then you expand this room and then you put a lot of people and they all talk together. So it's the same way of building internet exchanges to be able to have people connected together and exchange on a third party.
Speaker 2:Third party and it became it's such an important part of the health of the internet the internet exchanges, because it enabled and, and the as number which you actually put in a lot of those pieces, the autonomous system, which is the number that gets represented for an internet network, as a, as a, and then the internet exchange lady across those networks or connect them and sort of bring them together. So the internet exchanges became really, really important for the backbones of all global internet, sort of bypass and shortcuts all the connections, makes it faster, gives everyone a better experience. Lots of them were built, sort of community platforms as opposed to sort of corporates trying to make money out of them, so to speak. It was more of a giving back, I suppose, to the country.
Speaker 1:So this one was a funny part. So why we are so. Maurice Jean, working at Google at the time, was my friend, and how we decided to build we had the idea of French Psych is France. French people usually think that they are the best in the world, like every country, but they always say but.
Speaker 2:French between French.
Speaker 1:Good wine too, yeah, yeah but French, between French, have the same idea. I'm better than the other guy. So we had the most important number of internet exchanges in Paris. We had the most important uh number of internet exchange in Paris. We had like 15. Oh wow, and we have the less traffic in Europe because all the French people, since they are the better, better than the other one. So it was exactly, it was exactly. It was fragmented and with Maurice was making fun of me. So I went to a peering forum and they were making fun of the French and say, yes, you have the French guy. You have uh, okay. So I went to a peering forum and they were making fun of the French. They say, yes, you have the French guy you have always tried I say okay, so you have the money.
Speaker 1:I have the idea. Let's build an exchange.
Speaker 2:Let's do it.
Speaker 1:And then we started to talk and we had the idea to start to talk to people to fade away and at picture because they started to, they bought IXROP and started to expand in Europe. What year was that? Roughly 2007,. 8, something like that.
Speaker 1:Interesting yeah, so they bought IXROP just a few, I think two years back. And then they started to say, oh, we are going to expand to the exchange and they wanted to explain how to do internet. Yes, and, of course, as a french and american, say, okay, you don't, you are not going to tell us how to do it. And then this is basically to consolidate and beat equinix that I studied the exchange. Okay, that's funny and that was funny and we had we had a lot of fight for years like, uh, equinix was, I was basically the, let's say, man of interest at some point for them yeah, okay, you've got crosshairs on you from equinix, exactly yeah, and I'm happy that.
Speaker 1:Uh, I think 15 years after they are partner, for instance, yeah, it's so much for me.
Speaker 1:It was like yeah, I was telling them for years we don't need only one platform, we need two platforms, two big platforms in Paris. Otherwise, when one of them goes down, then you still have one backup at some point. Oh, it's not backup, it's active. Active at some point and it's uh. I think they are the wrong people at the time. And then they had a new management a few years back, more agile, more advanced and so on, and see, honestly, the uh. They are doing it right now on everywhere in the world and I really love the way they are going, the company. But, yeah, so now france and paris, uh is more stable and two platforms. I think for me, the best way to have a reliable internet, I know, is that everything is going to be AI and internet and so on. You need to be able to have 100% of time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. It's funny. One of our board members is Jay Adelson.
Speaker 1:He's the original founder of Equinix.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he sits on our board. He's got some amazing stories from way back in the early days when they first. I mean his story was that I think it was the San Jose Internet.
Speaker 1:Exchange.
Speaker 2:It was the original sort when they first. I mean his story was that I think it was the San Jose Internet Exchange. It was the original sort of yeah PEX, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:I was. I was um advisor of PEX, oh really, Just before they got acquired by Equinix, when it was uh, switch and data Fascinating. Well, that was Jay, I guess that would have.
Speaker 2:No, Jay was not there, I had, or months just before I started, before 2001, maybe, yeah but no, because I was still the advisor for Equinix.
Speaker 1:Okay, but then I think they asked me to join 2006 or 2007,. Part of the….
Speaker 2:But this is crazy fast, like you landed with no idea what you're doing in 1997, 2000, and whatever, you're already a key part of what is the most transformative movement in the history of humanity. Really Like, if you think internet has changed our lives in every way, shape and form, that's pretty cool yeah it was fun.
Speaker 1:It was some fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you end up building. So France IX was trying to piece this together 2009. Yeah, and then, and continues to this day. Do you have any involvement anymore, or is that so?
Speaker 1:I still speak to them. They asked me a few years back to go back into the board. I said no, it's not me now, you're busy, you're busy living in Wales.
Speaker 1:So I had to let it go because people in France were saying this is Raphael Exchange. Ah, yeah, okay, and for the good of the exchange, I had to leave. Yes, and I have to not come back anyway. So they asked me many times when there's a new board member, raphael, can you apply to be a board member? I said no, I don't. I can help or talk to you and so on. You can support external, yeah, but I cannot be part of it anymore because it's gone.
Speaker 2:It's, I think, 10 times bigger when I left, so it doesn't make any sense for me to come back. It's, it's on, it's on its way. Um, all right, so a chorus networks, which is really interesting, yeah, um, so what is that? You founded that? To do what?
Speaker 1:Okay, so so that's a new funny story. So I was when I was building NeoTelecom backbone. I started to do DDoS mitigation because DDoS started to grow and the only platform stable enough was Arbor Networks. It's a piece of hardware that's very expensive, got a lot of money, which one. Arbor. Oh, okay, yeah, it's, it's, it's a big platform and cost like one or two million.
Speaker 2:It's like a DDoS mitigation. Yeah, ddos mitigation, it's a platform. What?
Speaker 1:would it scrub? Yeah scrub like multi terabit of traffic. But it was expensive, so I was paying like millions just to maintain, just to keep. Ddos, yeah, to maintain. And then I said, okay, I see how it works, so I'm pretty sure we can build a piece of hardware with some SSDs, with some intelligence and automation.
Speaker 2:So you've got a DDoS scrubber, yeah. So I started to build hardware Because it was too expensive to buy from these guys.
Speaker 1:So I said, okay, let's build something so we can beat them. And the market is so big Even if I get 10% or even 5% of the market, it's a lot of money. So we started to build this and we spent about two years.
Speaker 2:So Chorus Networks was actually a network as well as DDoS.
Speaker 1:It was a platform, not a network. But how I end up being a network is when I started to go to see my former customers at NeoTelecoms do you want to buy this hardware? They said, yes, we want, but we don't want to manage it. We don't know how to do it.
Speaker 2:It's funny.
Speaker 1:It's a lot how Megaport has come along so we know you can be network. So build a cloud, put your hardware in it and we pay you. And this is basically my customer. They asked me to shift from an hardware company to a SAS company Interesting so and I shift with.
Speaker 2:So it's your hardware, but you weren't running in an AWS, you'd run, you'd build the hardware. We build hardware, we do some PCB, we own PCB, we build hardware. But you weren't running it like an AWS, you'd build the hardware and offer it as an assessor.
Speaker 1:We own PCB, we build our own stuff. We do some R&D on the way to have the flow of air in the Interesting. Yeah, it was. We built it for two years to build the first server.
Speaker 2:You're actually building hardware. Yeah, we built it for two years.
Speaker 1:It was fun, but at the end we ended up to stop pinning hardware, buying some Dell servers and just do the automation and with some ASICs, so some cards to do the mitigation and we shift the company in three months from hardware supplier to a SaaS company, because the customer was pushing, because the demand was not that the script is, not the hardware, and the hardware is fast.
Speaker 2:They can probably keep up with what you need and the software becomes the key for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, yeah. So, as I said, on this, stupid people, three months, stupid people don't change their mind. We had to change in three months, otherwise the company was dying. Amazing. So it was fun, and so that what happened and then did you in your state on? So volterra was um, um. So volterra was built by a friend of mine, uh, anchor singla, so it was he built contrail, the first automation, uh, sdn for, got acquired by juniper networks and a few years back, before we started aquarius, he tried to hire me to run the operation in Europe for Juniper Contrail.
Speaker 1:I said no, and then after I started Acorus, he came to me and said I'm building this edge network, but I don't know how to do it. I know how to build software. I know, how to build network? Can you provide us capacity around the globe and I said no again. And then he said I cannot. I cannot hire you, I cannot have you as a supplier. So why would not we merge a company and we build the future of the network edge? And this is how we merged the two company Acorus and Volterra.
Speaker 2:So the Acorus was all the DDoS. Volterra was what Edge the Edge software, sd-wan and.
Speaker 1:Volterra.
Speaker 2:So the Aqorus was all the DDoS, volterra was what? Edge the Edge software, sd-wan yes, kind of yeah, okay, and then F5? Acquired us, and what did they turn that into?
Speaker 1:So it's a new cloud edge of so everything that's run on the cloud for F5 grew and put it, the cloud for F5 grew and protected through this network. Now Everything was merged, all network operation was merged into this network.
Speaker 2:So this is an SD-WAN play from SD-WAN cybersecurity edge, waf. So all these different Exactly which sort of crosses into the Cloudflare? Fast space yeah exactly. I think it's less Fastly space yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:Like an Akamai, yeah, I think it's less. Yeah, so, and then after we acquired kind of Cloudflare company as well, More like Akamai company, so a small one, and then now it starts to be competitive, cloudflare and Akamai, yeah sure.
Speaker 2:So you stayed there for a bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, two years.
Speaker 2:Rest and rest, rest and rest. I was going to say Two years is good. I worked at Cisco and did a lot of acquisitions. It was always three years, so you negotiated. Well, we always say you never want to be a key when you get acquired because you get stuck, and so now it looks like you've got a lot of different. You're a limited partner of a bunch of different VC firms, so I assume you're investing in sort of angel and startups.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did some angel investments. Some went good, some went just. I got out without nothing. But let's just play part of the game. The fact that you get some that are good, yes, is the good part. So yeah, because you always learn.
Speaker 2:You never fail. You always done and then I started to do this, and is it across?
Speaker 1:the board or in the network space that you know. Some are in the network space, uh, two of them was in the us and the other one are mostly us or france or so mixed it's mixed. Uh, I, I did direct investment in the us company, I did some in uh in some uh french company as well, and then I started to say, okay, I can manage all of this. So let's go to a VC, yeah, and then put money in the VC and and and they manage it for for us, lux Networks yeah, lux Networks was, was a friend of mine, was at Neo Telecom, was a company we acquired, a small company we acquired and after he got acquired, so he left, started his own company, lux Network.
Speaker 1:And when I left and I got my money from the acquisition, of F5, then said okay, let's, you want to grow the company and the company was doing well but needed some help at some point. And I think we, when we joined the company, it was uh, uh, it was doing okay. I think we, uh, multiply by three uh, what he's doing and now really profitable. Yeah and um yeah, and it's really fun and uh.
Speaker 2:So now, this is your. To an extent, it's your way of sort of giving back and connecting and keeping yourself entertained. Your story, though, is like, linked with lots of friendships and, yeah, most of it, yourself entertained.
Speaker 1:your story, though, is like, linked with lots of friendships, and yeah, most of it, yeah, always, like, for example, the uh neotelecoms. I was uh, I was fighting a lot with the co-founder of neotelecom that was the ctu at the time, because I think I was better than him doing way uh, better job and so on, and say, and I left and say, yeah, I don't want to do uh to to work with them anymore. So, and when I started my other company because I also own another company which I have 20 people working on it, I have someone running I don't it's not on my, on this one, but I have people working for it for 12 years now it's a Stealth mode, or just you didn't put it on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:No, it's, it's on it but it's um, it's, it's uh, zorio, it's my first company, but this company is uh, now it's running by itself. I have a wonderful team running it.
Speaker 1:I have a uh, Karine, I heard her and now she runs a company for me she's the CEO of the benefit I give to people was coming from what I learned from Didier, the former guy. I was fighting a lot and I realized like after four or five years fighting with him leaving the company, that the mentorship he did for me was exactly what I'm shaping my company now and the way I work. So basically I found myself fighting with a mentor I realized was my mentor a few years after that was fun, so the battle became.
Speaker 1:he became the coach over time and then and then I invested in the VC firm. He launched a VC firm. I was the first one to invest. There you go, that's what I mean so it's all about friendship and relationship.
Speaker 2:So then, I guess that brings us all the way to Opsmill. Yeah, so Opsmill was 2023.
Speaker 1:So I didn't want to work, basically, my my at this time. I would just want you to have fun and to invest, yeah, that's it. And Damien come, came to me and say I have this idea of a product, and so on. What do you think about it? A company didn't exist, no, so on. Uh, what do you think about it?
Speaker 2:A company didn't exist.
Speaker 1:No, it didn't exist. It came to me with the idea and said okay, let's, uh, let's talk about it. We talk. He came back with a prototype and so on and at the end say you need to find a co-founder, otherwise I cannot uh vest your company at some point. And he came back, say after a few months didn't find any uh co-founders that want to leave his job and come and do this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, take the risk, okay.
Speaker 1:So let's do it. Let's uh, I come with you, build the company, okay, and let's see where it goes, and I'm going to raise money for the company. So we, we set up the company and a few weeks after, we raised uh 6 million. Oh, wow we raised some debt about 8 million total Wow. On the idea, yeah on the idea and some kind of prototype. A little prototype we had and yeah, so it's been a long time now and after 2023.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Not that long yeah for me it's long, for me it's too long. And then we started to grow it's too long so and then we started to go and and now we are. We were I started to uh work on the series a, uh, like late, uh, december last year and then I realized, yeah, I'm going to do series a and it's going to grow again, and I know the automation is basically key, because I look at companies like you guys who are doing it. I was saying this to a CTO of Verizon four years back.
Speaker 1:I say I don't understand why companies like Megapod exist Because you are failing doing it yourself. Correct, yeah, they just can't do it Exactly, you can't do it. Then you have the network, you have everything, you have the bandwidth, you have the fiber, you have everything. You have the bandwidth, you have the fiber, you have everything, you have the people, but you are not smart enough. So smarter people are being compared to Megapod because you are failing doing it. The guy was shocked At the end. He came back at the dinner and said I think about what you said. You are totally right, you are just failing doing it and we let better people doing it. And then I say and they say why you don't acquire them yeah.
Speaker 2:You see what I said to them.
Speaker 1:So it was really fun. So, for me, automation it's part of when you have to think about starting something. You need to think about how you are going to automate and how you're going to make it like almost in autopilot mode yeah, that you have to have people that are, for me, like when think about AI and automation is how to make the people who manage it smarter to use it and not to replace them. Yeah, so automation is not about replacing people. It's to make their job understated at some point.
Speaker 2:They should be focusing on the things that matter, versus all the admin, exactly, and all the admin and all the things that introduce risk. By the way, when it's not automated, humans make mistakes. Code can make mistakes, but it's yeah, it's funny you say that you know. I've been in the role two years. Companies have been around for 11 years, megaport 11 years.
Speaker 1:And really no one else has even gotten close to doing what we're doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it goes back to the sort of core principle that the company was founded on, is is everything is automated. You know that you can't actually log into Megaport's network and make a change. It's not possible.
Speaker 1:No, it's, it's the same. It was the same at Acorus.
Speaker 2:When we started at Acorus, oh you automated we.
Speaker 1:We are not, so I, so I'm not. I can't code anything. If I code something, I use ChatGPD, Because I'm really bad at it. I can do it, but it will take two days and ChatGPD will do it in two minutes. I always think that I need to hire people smarter than me, and I started to hire people who know how to do start to do automation and said okay, this is, I built this network. It's kind of automated with some script but it's not automated the way I want.
Speaker 1:So then you have to do the automation that we think that we're the next gen for network and after two years, three years, they removed my SSH access.
Speaker 2:I was not able to connect to anything.
Speaker 1:And everything that was. When you have an incident, you have to connect and do some change, but after three hours, if you don't validate your change, it will be removed by automation.
Speaker 2:It will come back to the state.
Speaker 1:Because at some point you can't do it, because if everything is down you have to go and fix it quickly Because automation and that was one of the reasons of OpsMill automation at some point becomes so big and so monolithic at some point that when you want to do a change I have seen on many, many, many networks a change can take three hours to push to everything, but when it's down you need to do it in seconds. And that was basically why OpsMill was founded. You can do island of automation. You can do oh, I want to do this. It can change only one thing everywhere.
Speaker 2:Test this without rolling into the whole thing. So when you run, it's sort of like you scale the code, update so that if it breaks it a bit like what we saw with CrowdStrike they probably should have had this slow piece, as opposed to one everywhere, and then push out the issue with automation.
Speaker 1:The issue with automation is people. There is no structure in a way where, if you look at the way people do, you have IETF, you have IX forum and so on, but automation you have nothing. So there is a new network automation forum, started from two guys, who wants to have people to come together to find a way to do automation at a community level. So people think about the same way to build automation. And that was not the case with automation. Everybody has done the same on their side and so on, and nothing was structured. And this is basically the issue where I've seen.
Speaker 1:People came to me when we were starting to be OpsMill, say, when we want to do a change every time, we have to be sure that we have four hours or six hours ahead of the change. Yeah, because we cannot do it less. Yes, yeah, say, what's the point to have automation if you have to wait six hours to have your change? Yeah, 100%. So that's, that's one of the reasons. And when I realized I'm going to series A and so on, I said we know, I know how to fix the problem, I know we were able to raise money and so on, and now it's about how to scale the company. So we put the company on the rail to scale. And then I said, okay, it's not my job, it's not my mindset to do it anymore. I just want to invest and to find new ideas. And then I said, okay, let's do series A and now it's my time to step back and stay investor for the company and replace me. So you're at series A now, or you've raised.
Speaker 1:It's working.
Speaker 2:You're in the process of series A and then you'll take a backward step. Stay as an investor, help the company scale and grow On the side?
Speaker 1:yes, and is it a French-based company? French-based company, yes.
Speaker 2:So cool and global, obviously. And is it a French-based company? French-based company? Yes, so cool, but the people are global.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there is no office anywhere and people are mostly. I think 40% are US-based and 60% Europe. Okay, and maybe 25% French people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but the rest is global. Very cool, yeah. I mean, we've seen some awesome holders and developers for networks come out of France, yeah. Yeah, we use a platform internally that is purely French-based company. In fact, in my previous life at Cisco, we acquired a French company which is an IOT cybersecurity company called Centrio, which is based in Lyon. That was really cool and that team was entire, entire.
Speaker 1:all the engineers, all the developers were in I said, the french people are the best you know they're the best, of course.
Speaker 2:Best wine, best food, okay, cool. So, um, dude, you're doing everything, uh, and then you've also. You also got some motorcycle racing going on as well. In now you're weightlifting.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's part of. You've been weightlifting for two years and now you're third in the in the yeah.
Speaker 1:That's crazy, yeah, but at the end, I was doing a lot of sport when I was young, and when you walk crazy like this, you don't um you, you don't really work on yourself.
Speaker 1:No, you work for your company Of course, and you work for your family, yeah, and so on. So the reason I started to uh live um on on on the plane and everything was because I had to make more money at some point, because my son is uh uh Asperger autistic, Okay. And then in France, you have no support. Oh really, yeah, it's terrible, yeah.
Speaker 2:The systems are not there to support it.
Speaker 1:It's not paid for that? And schooling, no schooling is really bad. They ask him to leave school.
Speaker 1:Yeah they just want support, so I had to make a way to make more money at some point, yeah, and the more money is working. In France it's not possible, so you can get it, but the way you can do it in the US is a scale that's different. And then I said, okay, two way I move to the US or I build a company and make more money, yeah. So I decided you like France, yeah, I love France, I love the way people think, people walk and my uh, my ex-wife didn't want to move to the US anyway.
Speaker 2:So so. So you, so you stayed working it and then I was, but what you built were companies, were ultimately acquired by US companies anyway. Yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, that's, that's yeah. So you won, yeah.
Speaker 1:That. That was part of the game and and when you do that, I was starting five more kilos until I reached like 110 kilos. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it was uh, which is a lot.
Speaker 1:Which is a lot of weight for my weight. And then, uh, I started to do some, uh weightlifting just because, uh, my coach was a world champion at the end and started to introduce to this one and I was really bad at it.
Speaker 2:Oh, you got a coach to get you fit. He's a. He's a weightlifter. She is she. Is she? Sorry, I'm part of me. Yeah, so she's got you weightlifting?
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I was really bad at it, because it's so, it's too much movement and it's too much techniques, and I don't like when I can't do something. So I started to invest myself into it and started to be good at it and said, okay, then you should go to some competition Starting it. And then I wanted to beat the other guy Of course, this is your nature. Yeah, that's basically how I ended up doing weightlifting, that's so cool and so I think, where were you?
Speaker 2:You just came from this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just arrived from Albania, albania just now from the weightlifting session.
Speaker 2:Yes, correct, and you came third, which means there's room for improvement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course the goal is to be a first. Are you going to go again next year? Yes, next year I'm going to and win.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course that part of the game, the goal is to win, that's so cool, and the motorcycle racing, that's cool as well. So you're into cars as well, or just bikes.
Speaker 1:No, just bikes. So I was doing just for fun, just crazy adrenaline yeah. And also when you're on a bike. It's you need to be focused. Oh, yeah, so you don't think about anything else and you take a lot of adrenaline and you like it. Your brain just explode off everything just explode of everything and this. When I started to do it 2010, I said this is the only way I can. I can't think of anything else but racing.
Speaker 2:It's your meditation, almost yes.
Speaker 1:And and then the company grew raising money, not allowed to do it by the VCs anymore. Yeah, Because you can kill yourself at some point, so you cannot do any dangerous sports.
Speaker 2:Oh, anymore, because you can kill yourself at some point, so you cannot do any dangerous sports. So I had to do it.
Speaker 1:It's worth saying in my contract. Yeah, in my contract, is that right? Yeah, my contract was. You should not do that. So I had to stop at some point. So I stopped and and then the French team. Is this normal to put in contracts? Like yeah, it's so funny. For example, we are not allowed to travel in the same plane with my co-founder.
Speaker 2:Okay In case of yes in case of this was in contract.
Speaker 1:If we go to a meeting, we have to take two different planes.
Speaker 2:Fascinating. Yeah, because they're so heavily invested in the two of you.
Speaker 1:So that was up, basically, and uh a french team, uh gmt 94, was the world champion of uh endurance.
Speaker 2:so it's kind of when you 24 hours racing like a le mans correctly, so they won three times and so on motorcycle. Yes, what was like 24 hours. Yeah, where is that? That's not all a man.
Speaker 1:No, it's different there is in the us, there is a suzuka in in Japan. Motorcycle yeah, 24, hours, 24 hours, yeah there's three pilots and they change every hour. Yeah, so they started to. I was introduced to them and the guy I was seeing the guy on TV for 10 years, 15 years I was a fan and say let's go and meet us and then I started to say, ok, let's.
Speaker 1:I started to put my own money to be a team member to invest into them, because a motorcycle is just about the fun and all about the sponsors. Like me, so I started to be like a very small sponsor, and now I'm the second biggest one of the team. That's cool.
Speaker 2:So you follow the team around, you don't race in it, I don't race in it.
Speaker 1:I do some racing track day. Yeah, you just go out, that's it. You don't race in it. I don't race in it, but you follow. Yeah, I do some racing track day. Yeah, you just go out, that's it, but I don't race, you just don't tell the VCs. Yeah, sure, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's so cool. Okay, so that's what gets you sort of downtime disconnected. You seem to have got the life balance sorted, but I mean there's been so much crazy hustle behind it. So what would you recommend for people coming in that people would look at you and think you're the most like an insane serial entrepreneur? You've founded all these different companies, been super successful in so many different spaces. Do you recommend it for most people or anyone you have to be cut from a certain cloth? Like you're obviously incredibly driven and hungry and it's like that is either in you or it's not. Like it's not something that you can sort of inspire in yourself.
Speaker 1:You have to be able to take some risk, and you have to.
Speaker 2:You have to have a purpose?
Speaker 1:Yeah, money is not for me. It's not a purpose. Purpose is really about what do you want to serve or do you want to have fun? For me? Uh, it's. What do you want to serve or do you want to have fun for me? Uh, starting my, my first company. So zoryol is still working on yeah, it's a small company. We're earning 20 million per year, 10 people it's working great 20 million a year with 10 people is not bad.
Speaker 2:It's okay, that's 2 million per head, yeah so it's working great um.
Speaker 1:The company is growing, and what does that company? Do by the way, mostly network consulting network Well like a consulting Consulting and a supplier as well. Okay. Because when I started to do Because when I left the company I started to do consulting in the US and in Singapore. I was doing network consulting for people. Come and design our network.
Speaker 2:I was doing it by myself. I was alone and people for people, come and design our network. Come and do. I was doing it by myself.
Speaker 1:I was alone and people are starting to ask me we don't want to buy the hardware.
Speaker 2:I want you to negotiate with Juniper.
Speaker 1:Do this and I started to okay, let's buy and sell it.
Speaker 2:We want a package, so you would consult yeah, and instead of then handing the consulting to someone else to deploy, yeah, then when the deploy? So the consulting was wrong, exactly. And then this point of finger they just own the whole thing, design it Exactly, procure it, manage it Correct, so it's a managed services and design. So the manage came after.
Speaker 1:Basically, I started where we came to installation. You know, design, procurement, installation, the whole thing and people were running it and after a few years, automation came into the picture. You have 10 people. Yeah, you always have to hire the best people and always better than you. Every time I want to hire someone, you need to be better than me, or should become. You will become better For me. That's the key to have a successful company.
Speaker 2:But that's, I guess, the other thing that's fascinating about you. You've been able to manage lots of companies at the same time.
Speaker 1:From what I can see, yeah, the key was to hire the best CEO for the company or to have the best partner, For example, with Acorus. Ben was my partner for years and it was everything I was not able to do. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you could see that, yeah, so at the end it's the way. So you didn't have this ego where you're like I'm going to do the whole thing, I'm going to be everything you can see the face you have to have some ego.
Speaker 1:Of course you have to think that you can do better than the other guy. Of course that's well managed, yes, well, that's your belief, yes, in effect. But that's the way I think, and when you see that, you have to step back. For me, for example, I was doing network managements for 20 years and when your team a 25-year-old guy said I need to remove your SSH access, if you have too much ego, then you say no, and then you brew up things. If you have too much ego, then you say no, and then you.
Speaker 2:You brought things For me. It's like, okay, this is a way of life.
Speaker 1:So it's a Peter syndrome. You came, you come to a way that you are reach your maximum level at some point. Yeah, yeah, what is this? The Peter?
Speaker 2:principle yeah yeah, you meet your level of incompetence Exactly.
Speaker 1:This is the only way I am today, and I want to reach this every day.
Speaker 2:So what do you want to keep doing? What's next? What's? Next Do you just keep investing, keep inspiring.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm doing it, so I also bought last year because so on my personal life I buy some statues.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you said this. This is cool, I buy some comic stuff and so on.
Speaker 1:So I was buying to a company and this company sent a notice that they're going bankrupt. You're buying a statue from a company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was artwork. Yeah, okay, I tell you, they're going bankrupt.
Speaker 1:And then I went to the court. Okay, I want to buy because I want it back, I want my, I want my statue.
Speaker 2:So let's buy the company.
Speaker 1:Save somebody, build my statue and make it profitable. This is how I end up buying a company that was bankrupt, and by a company that was bankrupt, and so where's the statue?
Speaker 2:company, so it's in France.
Speaker 1:It's in France, yes, and people. So we have artists in South America, in France, and so on. So there is a, a statue is like a what car Out of what?
Speaker 2:What material Resin?
Speaker 1:Resin, so we build it, we build all of them in.
Speaker 2:China. What's the company We've got to help you sell so?
Speaker 1:it's Onere. Creation O-N-E-R-E. Creation O-N-E-R-E.
Speaker 2:Creation, yeah, creations. And you design, yes, we design and the resin. How big are these things?
Speaker 1:Some are like this Okay, and some are like life-size Okay. Yeah, it's really fun.
Speaker 2:It's so cool.
Speaker 1:And we are scaling this globally, yeah, so, as a goal is so we, yeah, we started to sell uh, uh. Now we started to sell in, um, in, in Asia, in us and in Europe as well. What else? So I see now, for me it's um. When I agree to step back from OpsMill I want to focus on. The more important thing is I got divorced. Uh, of course, when you work too much, it's really hard to maintain. So my kids are, for me, really important. How old are your kids? 21 for my son and my daughter, she's 17.
Speaker 1:So she'll be finishing high school soon, so she was supposed to finish but I wanted her to leave the house when she was 16, 15. She went to the U? S for one year. Oh, exchange student, not exchange. I go to school in the U S. Oh, wow, okay. She went to a family host family and she would go to school like a normal, oh, fantastic. And then she, um, yeah, she came back. She has a fluent in English now and and now she's going to, uh, she. I said, if people say she lose one year going to us, I said no, she got a lot of experience. She gains like 10 years on the other people. So, yeah, so she's going to be good yet next year at some point.
Speaker 1:Okay, and I am focusing with her traveling, uh, uh, with my girlfriend trying to uh, to have some fun as well. So we try to travel. At least once a month we take the plane. We look on the monday where, at least once a month, we take the plane. We look on the Monday where we go. This weekend, friday, we take a plane to go somewhere and we come back. So that's part of what I want to do.
Speaker 1:And of course I want to help people doing things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's all these investments, yes, investments.
Speaker 1:But helping. Also, some people ask me to do some to work for them and say, no, I can do some consulting that make me happy to help you, like on a few days, to do this. For me it's more refreshing to be able to give your experience to someone on three, five, six days. Yeah, instead of I don't want to be involved into like one year, three years, years, five years consulting stuff. I want to help on the short term, make them happy and, for me, see that the impact I can do in a few, a few days, because I don't want, I don't like company consulting company who do it consulting for for years. You pay like a guy for 10 years. It's more money that you pay to consulting to, uh, to do your stuff. So this is what I'm doing. It's it's fresh for the mind, it's refreshing, it's it's new project every time. Yeah, and you see impact. Yes.
Speaker 2:You see the impact. What?
Speaker 1:you are doing, when you do consulting on project for two years, you have no impact. When you impact, that people do change the week after. This is why I find myself happy.
Speaker 2:Very cool, very. I find myself happy. Very cool, very cool man. Well, you seem to have landed all these different balances and components. It's cool that your kids are doing some interesting stuff. New girlfriend Lots of fun there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, crazy companies that you're coming out with. Do you think you'll support some more startups to come out of the mix? I mean, the one thing I find fascinating it's very, very few people that can take companies from zero to one. There's people that can scale companies after they've got some platform being built. That's not my DNA. One to two is not my job. One to two is, yeah, but zero to one is so difficult. It's like such a rare percentage of the population, like tiny percentage of the population, even get close.
Speaker 2:You've done it multiple times. Obviously, the DNA inside you is built that way. You've also got some friendships that have allowed you to be successful and repeat this and also raise capitals really quick. Yeah, so obviously, the good thing about one thing I saw with a lot of the founders that we acquired into Cisco when I was there.
Speaker 2:They came up with an idea and Sequoia would go and back them in five seconds with a piece of napkin, would go and back them in five seconds with a piece of napkin. You know, this is my new idea. You've sort of done it once and it makes it easier to raise again and again, but it still doesn't mean you're going to be successful by raising again and again. So to do that over and over is like really, really special. Our founder, actually Bevan he's built something like he IPO'd five different companies on the Australian Stock Exchange Still, I think, has the record for that and sort of had this incredible story of sort of founding something to solve a problem and then just continuing to solve the next problem, the next problem, the next problem.
Speaker 1:What can you solve? Yeah, for you or for the community. At some point that was the key of France iXBitx. Yeah, because we fixed something for the community.
Speaker 2:Find a problem, solve it it, do it in a better way. Believe you can do it in a better way? And the same with acorus, which was your. We get there's a better way to actually do ddos. Yes, we can build that out cool man. Well, geez, I really appreciate the chat we've, we've. We've been grilling you for a while. Anything you wanted to share, or or or um, add to the discussion so the way now I'm working with megapapod is friendship.
Speaker 1:I know one of your sales team in France for my first, my second company, like in 1999. Manon, alex, yeah, so I know them too 1999, you know those guys, so we are here now and just because I met someone 26 years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true. Yeah, well, we appreciate it. Those guys are killing it for us. Um, I mean, they're, they're kind of and my company, my other company.
Speaker 1:We are a make up partner. Oh which one, tzoio.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, you, of course, oh wow, yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, we send them Through the.
Speaker 1:We gave you a few of our customers because we thought the platform was the best for our customers.
Speaker 2:Oh, I appreciate it and they're really happy about it, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, so someone I met like 26 years ago and they were on the podcast today and I'm a customer as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we're a customer and also the automation piece. I mean the one thing if you look at the DNA of Megaport, it's actually hard to find this DNA across a lot of telco providers and that's why you mentioned it before. There's so many companies that should be able to do what Megaport does, but they just can't. They can't get out of their own way. There's too many networks. There's no culture of innovation One of the things. And if you look at Cam and Mitch, they were employee one and two in Megaport, still in the company, and they are just built for automation of network. And if you look at who we're hiring which is really funny they always say the hardest thing to hire is a Megaport person because they're a network engineer who codes and you have to.
Speaker 2:Coders don't understand networking. Networkers are typically not coders and you have this sort of scenario where you need a bit of both. Actually, there was one thing I was going to ask you that changes the game with AI. That's one thing I was going to ask you that changes the game with ai. That's one thing I didn't mention before when you were sort of going down that path. This ability to code has changed. Yeah, like coding is changing every day. It's just getting so much easier, like you just said. Well, you can code, but why would you, when you can just leverage chachi peter to punch this thing out or or whichever of the platforms, how do do you see companies right now? We've seen companies with like one or two people become unicorns. You know what I mean, and so I think we're going to keep seeing it. Does it change your perspective?
Speaker 1:on. So I've seen companies trying to replace everyone by AI, so my take on has that worked? No, I think one of the companies. They went back. They lost 20 million doing it. Oh, really, yeah, because they start to replace everyone. They will say, oh, the cost saving is 10 million per year, but they lost 20 million of contract.
Speaker 1:So, the point is yeah, the crazy part is that's the same way when the typewriter started to come. Yeah, let's replace all the people, Replace people, et cetera. No, at the end you have to work, so using new tools will help you to work on steroids.
Speaker 2:Yes, faster way, faster, Faster.
Speaker 1:but don't go into the opposite way of doing innovation by using everything to replace everything. You have to be able to use it wisely, correctly and train new people to embrace it.
Speaker 2:Yes, and not putting people against each other. It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1:So embrace a new technology, mastering it with the right people, and work to have your team. Don't build a team of rock stars in your company. Build a team that's going to help your company to be all rock stars at some point. But this is why I've seen errors people are doing is trying to have like one or two people in the company. Like are unique people and the rest have to follow this.
Speaker 2:Everyone else just follows. That's not the way.
Speaker 1:So AI, for me, is going to be we will not be able to work without AI. Yeah, so you have to start now to know how to use it, how to understand it and fix the issues that you have seen into your AI platform or strategy at some point.
Speaker 1:And so when you are talking about company like Big Tech and so on, they are far, far away, so they will do the same way they are doing for years. They are doing innovation by acquisition. Yeah, so then for me, start your company with AI, build stuff that's easy to understand, to manage, to fix stuff, and you will be acquired.
Speaker 1:When you were talking about. Someone wants to go into the journey today AI, but easy to use. Manage, and not only by AI, but humans can use it and understand it. This is, for me, the way to start manage and not only by AI, but humans can use it and understand it. This is for me, the way to start a company, fix something and big telcos. If you want the telco space, they will require you?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I mean, in our business we're actually growing, we're hiring, we're not trying to remove humans with AI. What we're trying to do is significantly increase the speed at which we develop and produce products. We see it very much as a multiplier. Yeah, and like any multiplier, if you're an average person, if you multiply that, you don't get a great outcome. If you're a really good operator and the way you think and you actually execute and you can put a 10X behind that, it's significantly higher than a 10x on someone that's actually pretty average.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's exactly the way to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and what is key for us, particularly in our space, we've been lucky that the telco industry isn't very fast at innovating, so they haven't really caught us up. But that's our opportunity to just accelerate even faster and harder, and the only thing we focus on is more and more products, features and differentiation. So even if someone finally does get their act into gear to try and catch up to us, it's so hard because we're so many steps ahead from an automation standpoint and all the different products and features that we've added to the platform. So you could probably catch us to here, but then by then we've already caught up, we've already pushed forward. The other piece is we're constantly trying to add new TAM like addressable market by adding in different products, features and whatever it may be.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, we see the same, it's exciting and the funny part is when you were speaking two times I was listening for the past two minutes you say product and features. Product first, features after. That's the way of building a company. Think about your product, feature will come after. Yeah, I agree, and don't do features and product after. That's the way of geeks are doing, and a lot of good product are better than more advanced features product because you cannot use it, of course.
Speaker 2:So product first feature after yeah, and on that product piece, you know you can't have an amazing go-to-market team and win with a bad product Like you can sell a little bit, but you can't over time. So in tech, the number one priority is to get that product super differentiated, solving a customer problem, not coming 12th in the race. It has to be in the one or two and all these different components and constantly innovated, and so that's like we're passionate about that. We're super lucky that we're in this. Megaport actually slowed its innovation for a period of time before I jumped into the role, and we were lucky that we didn't get dominated or taken over by some SaaS-style business, because our competitors are in that telco space. But that doesn't mean you can just stop. You've got to just go harder and harder. So if you had a look at the product portfolio online that the guys have got punching out, it's wild. Blow your head in comparison to where we were. So it's like a. It's a really. It's really cool. It's wild.
Speaker 1:Blow your head in comparison to where we were. So it's like a. It's a. Really it's not a network company anymore.
Speaker 2:It's a product company.
Speaker 1:Yeah, correct, that's, that's how you sell the product. The company it's not. Oh, we are not a A to B company. Yeah, we are a product company.
Speaker 2:And what's funny is um and the guys upstairs we build, we sort of look at product becomes a Lego piece, yeah, and in itself is powerful and interesting and differentiated and does solve this particular problem. But where it gets really interesting is when those solution architects work for a customer and probably like your company, that's designed. You stitch all these Lego blocks together and you create a Hogwarts castle and you're like wow, that is like really cool. And so some of the crazy ideas that companies are solving problems with all these pieces is really interesting. And as you get through that you realize you're missing pieces. You're missing, uh like, firewall functionality, or you're missing um DDoS platforms inside it, or you're missing um load balancing functions or you're missing. Each one of these things becomes the next product that solves the problem and adds the Lego block to sort of create the next castle. So that's cool, man. Yeah, it's lots of fun. Yeah, it's a fun place.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate you jumping on. It's unbelievable what you've built. I think you know you are a legend in the industry. So I mean ChatGBT calls you a heavy hitter. I thought that was really funny. When Chad GVT is calling you this yeah. So we appreciate you coming on and hopefully this is for folks listening. Hopefully this is a really interesting insight into. You know one of the most phenomenal serial entrepreneurs who literally built the internet and all those platforms across France and that's spread across Europe and then now owned by US companies and so forth. Different acquisitions.
Speaker 1:Pleasure man, appreciate you. Thanks for across europe. And then now owned by us companies and so forth, different acquisitions. Pleasure man, appreciate you. Thanks for having me. Yeah, cheers, cheers.
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